Okay, so not only are we using a lot of oil, but we're using more of it each year. and by "we", I mean Earth.
At this rate, it might only be about 10-20 years before we start seeing oil wells drying up (the whole Peak Oil thing). So, let's just say that in 2018, on the ides of March, the Saudi oil system runs dry. The pinch is felt immediately as other wells go double time to pick up the slack, and they, too, shortly run dry.
First, our trucking industry runs on diesel. At the very least, we wouldn't need to do much conversion to get them running on Bio-d. Next, most bus line infrastructures are already on, or moving to, alternative fuels (lpg, electric, etc). Most gasoline engines can run on ethanol if needed, and that may pick up a little of the slack. The air industry goes under, but, it's halfway there already. Bike shops, particularly specialty bikes (like folders, haulers, and multi-passenger), take off like crazy.
The thing that bothers me is that we are currently producing greenhouse gasses and soot in roughly equal proportions. The soot causes global cooling, and is part of the reason that solar isn't working as well as it could. But when the oil burns stop, The soot gets removed pretty quickly, and suddenly, we have all the greenhouse issues in one fell swoop.
I'm thinking that the old wood-burning rail system could help this out. Also, with extra carbon dioxide AND a lot of sunlight we're gonna see a lot of plants and a LOT more rain. [More sunlight and more heat on a planet with 70 surface water means a lot more clouds, higher energy clouds]
In short, other than a couple of years of struggle and a lot of rain for a while, I don't see a problem with surviving the oil economy. But if I had to put a pin in it, I'd say that an electric bike company would be a wise, long-term investment.
At this rate, it might only be about 10-20 years before we start seeing oil wells drying up (the whole Peak Oil thing). So, let's just say that in 2018, on the ides of March, the Saudi oil system runs dry. The pinch is felt immediately as other wells go double time to pick up the slack, and they, too, shortly run dry.
First, our trucking industry runs on diesel. At the very least, we wouldn't need to do much conversion to get them running on Bio-d. Next, most bus line infrastructures are already on, or moving to, alternative fuels (lpg, electric, etc). Most gasoline engines can run on ethanol if needed, and that may pick up a little of the slack. The air industry goes under, but, it's halfway there already. Bike shops, particularly specialty bikes (like folders, haulers, and multi-passenger), take off like crazy.
The thing that bothers me is that we are currently producing greenhouse gasses and soot in roughly equal proportions. The soot causes global cooling, and is part of the reason that solar isn't working as well as it could. But when the oil burns stop, The soot gets removed pretty quickly, and suddenly, we have all the greenhouse issues in one fell swoop.
I'm thinking that the old wood-burning rail system could help this out. Also, with extra carbon dioxide AND a lot of sunlight we're gonna see a lot of plants and a LOT more rain. [More sunlight and more heat on a planet with 70 surface water means a lot more clouds, higher energy clouds]
In short, other than a couple of years of struggle and a lot of rain for a while, I don't see a problem with surviving the oil economy. But if I had to put a pin in it, I'd say that an electric bike company would be a wise, long-term investment.
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Re: A vision
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 6:00 PMFor some reason we decided that truckers jobs were more important that efficiency in shipping. It would be more efficient to use more rail systems and less trucks, but that would put truckers out of work.
Biodiesel is not really a large scale solution.....unless you see population reduction as part of the solution, in which case you might be right.
Seriously, rail systems will have to be the new mode of transportation with the decline of oil.
Another major problem is having a global economy. We need to produce and consume locally to the greatest extent possible. Having a global economy depends on oil to ship stuff around the world. -
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Re: A vision
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 10:32 PMBiodiesel can play a transitional role, but we shouldn't over invest in the technology. that cropland needs to be used for food. longterm we should be converting to solar produced hydrogen for large scale commercial uses.
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Re: A vision
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 7:20 AM< Seriously, rail systems will have to be the new mode of transportation with the decline of oil.>
Rail would be good. But what about dirigibles? Slow but efficient point to point and have a heavy lift capability that can move tones of cargo.
Now about peak oil. The Middle East won’t dry op in ten years. It will keep pumping for another 50 or more. But the cost of each barrel pumped will become increasingly high. Maybe $400 per barrel. -
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Re: A vision
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 12:41 PMHmm, dirigibles might replace a lot of the extra-oceanic trade routes (like between us and China right now). Though, ultimately, I think that Sailing vessels will return. The mid pacific is like a giant whirlpool that can be used to take things from Alaska to Baha to New Zealand to China and back to Alaska. No sails really needed. We could KonTiki the Asian trade routes :)
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Re: A vision
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 1:48 PMWe should be moving towards a society that realizes that we are one people, and the idea that nation states are human inventions that exist only in the mind. However, shipping things to 12 different countries before they end up on store shelves needs to stop. We need a decentralization of production with open source patents. Open source patents should be globalized.
Soon it will get too costly to import "cheap" products from overseas.
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Re: A vision
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 1:59 PMWell, yeah, that is the big issue with the global specialization economy. India can get away with it, because they have all the phone cables in place, but when you're talking hard goods, yeah, eventually, those big shipping tankers might have to have sails on them. :) But, yes, a more diverse small business economy will eventually prove cheaper, faster and more reliable.
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Re: A vision
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 12:19 PMI'm just saying that transitioning a diesel engine back to Bio-D or SVO would be trivial compared to trying to produce enough ethanol to transition the personal vehicle market. Granted, putting a lot of eggs in that basket isn't smart, but we're [theoretically] talking about a scramble.
10 years, 50 years, what's the difference? just more time to develop 700hp personal vehicles.
I guess where I'm going with this is that as ignominious as the bike is viewed now, it will become much more of a staple soon. and if I were to be a betting man, solar pedal cars would be the next big thing.
www.americanspeedster.com/
www.xtracycle.com/
www.electric-bikes.com/ -
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Re: A vision
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 12:22 PMelectric vehicles for short commutes. bio-diesel for heavy lifters until hydrogen comes along. . -
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Re: A vision
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 12:36 PMYup electric bikes generally have enough power to meet most people's average one-way commute. And, again, not necessarily a permanent solution. This is more of a de-bunking of the prophesies of doom at the crash of society after we lose oil.
If gas prices do continue to rise, the financial incentive to shift to conservative measures will increase until we see the same trend as the 80s when fuel rationing lead to high-milage, large gas tank vehicles (I really miss my Omni-Miser).
With a more gradual incline in prices (rather than the above scenario), then more permanent solutions will continue to pop up (like, say, hydrogen, or maybe something not yet public). Plus instead of the bicycle markets getting hit all at once, innovators can continue to produce new stuff (like the xtracycle) to meet the needs of an economy slowly shifting over to human-powered. -
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Re: A vision
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 6:46 PMI agree that we ship too many goods up and back. We need more local manufacturing. That means we need to break the corporations that want to dominate all manufacturing, distribution and sales. We can and must have smaller local manufacturing around the globe. Yes that means global open patents. Also global sharing of knowledge to start manufacturing. -
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Re: A vision
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 8:31 PMThe process of creating a society that is good for people and good for the planet can start right in your own neighborhood. . .but to gain structural momentum it needs to happen in your region as well.
While we are starting cooperative enterprises, we should also lobby local governments to go green. I would love to see New Mexico, Arizona, California working together to develop regionally owned solar plants, and those same states coupled with Oregon and Washington take the initiative to set standards for green automobiles. California did that once but backed down as auto makers weaseled out of the standard.
If more states got involved it would mean a larger power bloc due to the increased political and purchasing power of numbers.
Then as we see increased availability of green automobiles, local cooperatives could form to get fleet purchase prices on buying the vehicles in larger numbers. That's what companies do. . .a company buys 40 vans or trucks and they pay a reduced rate.
Those are just a couple of ideas. . .if people start talking about these things more and more good ideas will be generated.
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Re: A vision
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 11:54 AM
"...transitioning a diesel engine back to Bio-D..."
Not sure what you mean by "back"... Rudolf Diesel designed his engine to run best on peanut oil, and my 2003 Jetta TDI wagon requires no conversion or adjustment to run perfectly on B100. In fact, I'm pretty sure if the weather is 70 degrees F or higher, I could pour a few gallons of unused peanut oil in the tank and all would be fine.
Unless you just mean transitioning the "minds" of the diesel owners to use biodiesel instead of fossil fuel, which would be great.
I suspect all the recent corporate media hype about bio fuels ruining croplands and causing worldwide hunger is all a preconceived setup. Those in the know were well aware years ago that corn-based ethanol is a very bad idea, for many reasons. But since the capacity for critical thinking has become so dulled, at least in the USA, it worked as a great ploy to delay our shift toward renewable fuels and keep us filling the Exxon-Mobil coffer with globally historic profits each year.
Everybody on this thread is obviously plenty intelligent, and vastly more aware than the "average" person. All I'm saying is that bio fuels, if and when implemented through the right approach from beginning to end, will play a significant positive role in sustainable transportation.
Thanks for the great links to electric vehicles, by the way.
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