Make your own fuels?

topic posted Mon, April 28, 2008 - 12:07 PM by  offlineSentience
Just curious....if you had a small farm and either had a distiller or an oil press, and everything was done by hand (unlike conventional ethanol or oil production), which would be easier to make between ethanol and veggie oil, and which would be more likely to give you a higher yield for your crops?
posted by:
Sentience
California
  • Re: Make your own fuels?

    Mon, April 28, 2008 - 2:49 PM
    Both, actually. Take corn for example, you eat the nibblets, press the oil, then use the cellulose as a mash to ferment the ethanol, then compost the mash for fertilizer.
    • Re: Make your own fuels?

      Mon, April 28, 2008 - 3:37 PM
      years ago i read that it isn't hard to convert a car that has a carburetor to run on alcohol. . .i don't remember any specifics but what I do remember was you need to modify the jets and replace plastic parts. it didn't sound very complicated. the author claimed that it was more costly and time consuming to make the still. . .
      • Re: Make your own fuels?

        Mon, April 28, 2008 - 5:35 PM
        yeah, we used to run hot rods on ethanol (or Ethyl as it used to be called at the pump).
        You have to change the seals too, because ethanol gives higher compression (or something like that).

        Thing is, any bootlegger will tell you the the MPG on ethanol sucks and it's pretty hard to make (stills explode now and then). Better to use what little you can make to make Bio-d.
    • B
      B
      offline 113

      Re: Make your own fuels?

      Mon, April 28, 2008 - 6:18 PM
      I just read that for most people making your own fuel is illegal since they aren't paying the fuel tax.
      • Re: Make your own fuels?

        Mon, April 28, 2008 - 6:34 PM
        I dont give a rats ass about that. Im just trying to get ready for when gas is too expensive to purchase. Its good to keep in mind though, so thanks for the heads up.


        The next question would be where I could find some step by step directions for making the fuels on my own land.
        • Re: Make your own fuels?

          Mon, April 28, 2008 - 8:21 PM
          There was a piece on the Paducah news last week about just that. A man was so disgusted with the price of gas that he rode his horse to work. Not only did he save the gas, but he arrived in less time than when he drives.

          Whatever you decided to make, you should consider building your own equipment and not ordering a premade still. Unless you want to attract the attention of your friendly state department of revenue.
          • Re: Make your own fuels?

            Mon, April 28, 2008 - 8:53 PM
            Im not an engineer. Im a medical practioner with casual interest in alternative technology, but no real math or engineering skills. I took the bare minimum math to take the basic chemistry courses needed to study physiology....if you need help mixing up potions or making medicines from plants though, Im your man. I just dont know the first thing about construction or machine making,
            • Re: Make your own fuels?

              Mon, April 28, 2008 - 8:56 PM
              You''d be better off making acid and trading it for fuel... :)
              • Re: Make your own fuels?

                Tue, April 29, 2008 - 7:57 AM
                journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_mike.html

                this is a good link to making biodiesel as ar as farming the soy and pressing it as well on your own land, that' a bit more info needed. but basically you can use almost all of the "waste" your not using for the fuel, in various ways.
                • Re: Make your own fuels?

                  Tue, April 29, 2008 - 8:00 AM
                  also the best book i've read on this subject is
                  Biodiesel, basic and beyond,
                  a comprehensive guide to production and use for the home and farm
                  author William H. Kemp

                  Tons of info on everything about biod,
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Make your own fuels?

                    Tue, April 29, 2008 - 12:40 PM
                    Id be interested in a solid fuel home power generator. Burn your biowaste and get electricity back.
                    • Re: Make your own fuels?

                      Tue, April 29, 2008 - 2:11 PM

                      Do you mean a Solid Oxide Fuel Cell?

                      From what I understand, this technology is unfolding quite nicely, and is, of course, already available to consumers in Germany, Japan, etc.

                      A unit about the size of an average furnace will heat your house, heat your water, and provide all the electricity you need. No more wires running from the street to your house, which means you can build your shack WAY back in the woods and still have all the amenities. True distributed generation.

                      I believe these will operate on methane, natural gas, bio fuels, etc., and give off almost zero emissions.
                      • Re: Make your own fuels?

                        Tue, April 29, 2008 - 4:31 PM
                        Actually, I just meant something like a steam engine furnace.
                        • Re: Make your own fuels?

                          Tue, April 29, 2008 - 9:17 PM

                          A steam engine furnace?... well, I'll trade you one of those for a dodo bird...

                          No offense intended, just trying to use a little humor to make the point that maybe, as attractive as nostalgia can be, what is real now is a bit different than what was real then.

                          I think Solid Oxide Fuel Cell technology is gonna be like Elvis!!!
                          • Re: Make your own fuels?

                            Wed, April 30, 2008 - 10:43 PM
                            "I think Solid Oxide Fuel Cell technology is gonna be like Elvis!!!"

                            Yeah, but I dont know how to make solid fuel oxide on my own from scratch. I might be able to figure out how to make steam turbine though.

                            Maybe you could teach me more about this technology.
                            • c.
                              c.
                              online 19

                              Re: Make your own fuels?

                              Thu, May 1, 2008 - 7:24 AM
                              "But I doubt I will be using a tractor"

                              What are you planing on using?
                              • Re: Make your own fuels?

                                Thu, May 1, 2008 - 3:37 PM
                                Well, I dont plan on having a lot of "row crops", as I will be living off a small piece of land and will have a lot of diversity. Mostly trees and low maintenance high yield food crops. Nut and fruit trees, peas, lots of vegetables, and limited grains. I also want to experiment with hydroponics.

                                So we will probably be doing a lot by hand, which is cool if your not growing commercially. If I was going to have a commercial operation with row crops, I certainly would not want to do it all by hand.
                                • Re: Make your own fuels?

                                  Thu, May 1, 2008 - 5:38 PM
                                  I have always wanted to remove myself from civilization as much as possible, but there is always that nagging thing called taxes. Is there a good way to make money living this way in order to pay Uncle Sam off every year?
                                  • Re: Make your own fuels?

                                    Thu, May 1, 2008 - 5:41 PM
                                    You can start a non-denominational church.
                                    • c.
                                      c.
                                      online 19

                                      Re: Make your own fuels?

                                      Fri, May 2, 2008 - 8:58 AM
                                      Well then I would look at rapeseed, which under good conditions can give you 100-125 gallons of oil per acre. so a 50x100 foot plot will give you a gallon. An oil press is simpler then a still. I built a simple hydraulic olive oil press for for $250.

                                      I guess I'm harping on the subject, but tractors are not just for row crops they are a source of portable power. I tried doing everything by hand on 5 acres. It is possible but not very much fun. The PTO on a tractor can drive lots of handy tools, tillers, oil press, post hole driller, water pumps, wood splitter, Manure/compost spreader. Saving your back is very important, if you wish to be self sufficient. A 50’x100’ garden took me 60 cu yards of compost a year to keep the soil in good shape, at least that’s what we used in Washington State, but the soil there on the west side of the Cascades was not very fertile, and with all the rain it leached out pretty quick. So with a good 2-wheel wheelbarrow that’s about 300 trips over tilled ground and now you get to till it in by hand.
                                      I had a small 15 hp Yanmar tractor that worked out perfect. They are cheap, I paid $4000. for the tractor with a front loader bucket and tiller. I bought a post hole drill for $150. and built a wood splitter and field mower from old parts I found in junk yards.
                                      I used about 20-25 gallons of diesel a year at the most and that was when I was clearing some new pastures. Some years I only used 10-15 gallons of fuel.

                                      • Re: Make your own fuels?

                                        Fri, May 2, 2008 - 11:54 AM
                                        Ill keep that in mind. I have done some farming, but Ive only worked by hand. If I can find a cheap tractor I will consider it.
                                        • c.
                                          c.
                                          online 19

                                          Re: Make your own fuels?

                                          Fri, May 2, 2008 - 12:57 PM
                                          Check into grey market tractors, I had a Yanmar which also made several models for John Deere, the parts were interchangable but a JD dealer will not tell you. There are a couple of websites that have all the info which ones are interchanglable ete. And they are cheap, with out a front loader I've seen them for under 2 grand with a tiller. Also the old fords are great , I sold my Yanmar when I left Washington and bought an old Ford 9n here in Arizona for $1500. Unfortunetly they are gas, but I Dont have to use it much and parts are cheap and readly available.

                                          Good luck with your endeavors. It is fun to not be dependent on others for your needs.
  • Re: Make your own fuels?

    Tue, April 29, 2008 - 4:47 PM
    There is a man in Kansas who grows his own sunflowers, presses them, filters the oil, adds some unleaded gas, and runs all of his diesel equipment on the fuel. Not completely green, but neither is biodiesel. The best thing is he is getting more miles out of his fuel than diesel. Also, there is no salt in the virgin oil compared to waste oil, which leads to corrosion in the engine. His site is www.oilcrusher.5u.com/index.html and if you get past the typos the info is pretty amazing.

    I've been buying oil and experimenting with it. I can definitely say that my mileage does improve somewhat and that the oil helps lubricate the parts when I make my own fuel. The price isn't right when buying the fuel in small quantities, but it has been interesting. BTW this process only works for diesel engines.
  • c.
    c.
    online 19

    Re: Make your own fuels?

    Wed, April 30, 2008 - 7:23 AM
    If everything is done by hand what do you need fuel for, when solar would suffice for home needs. And if you do everything by hand you will not be needing very much lighting as you will be asleep when your not working

    But as an old farmer let me say some form of tractor will make your existance palatable. There are several small walk behind units and a relative of mine made a workable electric model from a surplus electric pallet jack, It works pretty well for a small garden (1/4 acre) and can be recharged from his solar banks. You could use animals but unless you have grown up with them, well the learning curve is tough . and you need pasture for critters making a bigger farm. The bigger the farm less sleep you get.

    For really good information on small farming techniques check out some of the periodicals and web sites from europe as they are much better at it then we are here

    here is a web site for walkbehind tractors. www.ferrari-tractors.com/walking.htm
    • Re: Make your own fuels?

      Wed, April 30, 2008 - 1:05 PM
      Fuel can come in handy for transportation and hydroponic systems for growing food year round, and for electronic communications. The idea is not be be a Luddite and do everything by hand, but to have a low tech method for making fuel with virtually no machinery or infrastructure to start with.

      But I doubt I will be using a tractor.

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