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Can someone tell me where I can find information on electric drive motors for automotive purposes? I'm interested in notors that would mount to each wheel making the vehicle 4-wheel drive.
Thanks,
MP & BB
John
))0((
Thanks,
MP & BB
John
))0((
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Re: Electric Motors for cars
Tue, June 23, 2009 - 8:06 AMWheel motors are not commercially available.
There are some being made but you can't just buy 'em ya gotta buy the whole vehicle.
What you can buy are hydraulic wheel motors. Drive that with a hydraulic pump and drive that with an electric motor.
And you can engineer your own wheel motor units. It's not all that big a deal in concept. It will take up a lot more space with the power transfer units from a fixed point motor. Or you can spec your own.
What is a wheel motor anyway? It's simple stuff.
It's a motor with a gear on the output shaft that interfaces with a large diameter gear on the driven.
You can use straight gears which are the strongest and cheap, or hypoid gears which are quieter.
Freight Trains use Straight gears on their wheel motors and put one on each wheel.
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Re: Electric Motors for cars
Tue, June 23, 2009 - 11:44 AMHave you thought of scaling down the idea a little bit and working with existing tech? If you don't mind switching to Mountain Bike tires (or streets, your choice), you could put 4 electric motors on bike tires and make something like one of these for the body:
www.americanspeedster.com/
You might want to beef up the [complete lack of] suspension a bit for true off-roading, But it would make an interesting project.... -
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Re: Electric Motors for cars
Tue, June 23, 2009 - 11:56 AMTedward> "beef up a complete lack of suspension"<
... a real piece of geometry waiting to happen! ~Jon -
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Re: Electric Motors for cars
Tue, June 23, 2009 - 2:43 PMWell, I thought about this. Stat with the basic plans, and eliminate the bike parts (or leave them in as a back-up system).
But put two electric drive wheels on for serious power and average sidestreet speeds. Add a light package and buzz the thing around town. But there's nothing that says you couldn't put four of them on there, switch to off-road tires and enclose a bit more. Once you have the basic frame design, it should be fairly easy to modify into a suspension system, especially if you remove all the bike bits (which require precise alignment) and throw on some springs.
Just put a few deep cell batteries under the seat and a solar panel on the roof, you're good to go. -
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Re: Electric Motors for cars
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 9:54 AMthe concern of damped resonance in the suspension itself is important to limit thermal pollution in the drive motors.
power applied at a first (and second) derivative of the naturally damped resonance frequency,
(acting like a sonic bass tuned-port then loaded with a resonance matched passive radiator load to damp overshoot in speaker drive coils)
will always be absorbed into shock heat, motor loading (winding losses and low back-emf [stall] batter thermal loading),
and consequently never applied as forward momentum from the already taxed battery energy / kilogram density.
because liquid fuels are so energy / mass efficient compared to reversible electrolyic chemistry... the topic is wide open. -
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Re: Electric Motors for cars
Wed, June 24, 2009 - 12:09 PM????
I thought the point was to have in-wheel electric drives. Wouldn't that negate a lot of this?
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Re: Electric Motors for cars
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 8:15 AMWheel motors are great for trains because the wheels never leave the smooth rails. On a car or truck the forces the wheel must handle are tremendously different. I think placing the engine on the wheel is an unwise thing. It is better to place the motor somewhere in the vehicle where the forces that the wheel must handle ( bumps torsion camber shock - you name it) won't transfer to the motor.
This means fewer motors of course. you can get by with one or two. Why not use the AWD from an Audi or Subaru? I think all you'll need to change will be the anti slip function that throttles an ICE back.
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Re: Electric Motors for cars
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 9:28 AMCavil,
correct also.
thank you,
the term is called "unsprung weight".
any vehicle must have some suspension to allow the dissapation of uncomfortable vibration. Even the most basic wheel and axle carts have some suspension...horsedrawn carriages place two leaf spring assemblies (or one large) beneath the bench seat.
Stiffness ( torsion in particular ) in a chassis leads to _predictable_ transfer-of-power patches beneath the wheels to allow control, but suspensions which are stiff do transmit vibrations into the driver and passengers which can become physically intolerable, especially at high speeds or on rough road.
It is also a good point that the energy required to reestablish the wheel patch to the ground after a bump, even a small excursion, must come directly from the fuel use of the powerplant. There is some exchange between the energy stored in compressed springs and gravity, called a Lagrangian integral, but losses in shock dampers and friction also come right out of the fuel use.
The issue of _Unsprung Weight_ (the sum of weights which are not above the suspension) reflects well in a model of a grandfather clock. Pendulums which are small require less power and work to maintain, while the mass and energy of a heavy and consequently lower frequency (read as 'more comfortable' ...[even safe]) demand much more power and consequently fuel to transport.
Leaving the heavy components of a drive motor directly on the wheel can only increase un-sprung weight, and remains a physical challenge that must be accepted with the decision to translate (move).
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Re: Electric Motors for cars
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 2:43 PMJoh says:
"the term is called "unsprung weight". "
And that is yet one more really good reason to get the motors into the chassis and off the wheel.
None of these things are an issue for a freight train.
But trains live in an entirely different universe from trucks and cars.
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Re: Electric Motors for cars
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 12:20 PMthere are wheel motors for bikes and trikes that may work for a around town low speed rig.....
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Re: Electric Motors for cars
Mon, June 29, 2009 - 8:48 PMThank you all for your input. You have given me much food for thought.
MP & BB
John
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