Greener on a Budget

topic posted Mon, April 7, 2008 - 4:49 PM by 
Someone in another thread made a very valid point, and I think this will be a useful brainstorming topic. Going 'green' can be expensive, costly, and pretty much, well, out of reach for anyone without disposable income. I advocate that you can go greener if you really think about small ways and places to make changes in your lifestyle. Small things add up. Yes, it would be nice to be able to afford a hybrid with the plug-in conversion kit, build a green home, live off the grid and call myself green. However, the average person, myself included, probably can't afford to do that. So what are some ways to go greener on a budget? What are some changes that we can make today, without waiting for the next big technological advancement? I want to hear your ideas, large AND small.

~Kaytee
posted by:
  • Re: Greener on a Budget

    Mon, April 7, 2008 - 4:56 PM
    Green consumerism is often bogus green anyway. The first and most important step to going green is reducing consumption, and buying local, and doing more yourself.

    Green capitalism isnt the answer. Its expensive and a distraction from the root problem.

    Cant afford green transportation? Try riding a bike.

    Even hybrid cars have a downside in that they use more energy to manufacture and the batteries are toxic.


    In my opinion, the poor are almost greener by default because they consume less. Public transportation is greener than your hybrid car.
    • Re: Greener on a Budget

      Wed, April 9, 2008 - 7:45 AM
      Sent, I couldn't agree more, my stupid company argues their "Green" stance from every stupid point you can think of and has started huge classes on sustainability all in an effort to justify local governments into supporting their expansion.
      It's really pathetic how everyone can be so duped and play along with this silly corporate game.
      What about all the wasted space in America and huge suburban developments that create so many problems for us and generate even more power sucking infrastructure? No one gave a hoot about that (well hardly anyone did) untill gas prices started going up and then everyone turned all "Green" and sustainability conscious--It really is sick....oh well hopefully some good will come out of it.
      As an example Waste Management, the largest waste company in America is now advertising how they convert their lands into wetlands and green belts, maybe some good will come out of all our waste afterall. And perhaps if we can stick derricks in them to suck out the methane than maybe some good will come out of all our huge landfills.
      Ok I am venting and dragging, things I always tend to do.
      • Re: Greener on a Budget

        Thu, April 10, 2008 - 9:02 AM
        "And perhaps if we can stick derricks in them to suck out the methane than maybe some good will come out of all our huge landfills. "

        Vent away pal, vent away! I used to drive past this landfill on my way to my research site and they burned off the methane every night. EVERY NIGHT!!! Think about all the energy they could have created from all that methane?! I think we should try creating proposals for our cities and towns to harvest the emergy from our landfills and turn it over to the power grid from the local power companies, to be passed off as savings for the power customer, with the savings listed directly on the bill, so we can see how much it helps in the long run, and of course we can hold the power companies accountable for that "free" energy they are getting.
  • Re: Greener on a Budget

    Mon, April 7, 2008 - 5:22 PM
    I'll post a few ideas.

    1.) Online billing - reduces paper wastage, and save yourself the price of a stamp
    2.) Drink tap water over bottled water, reuse a glass bottle or get a permanent water bottle if you want to bring water with you
    3.) Recycle in the bathroom - yep, TP rolls, toothpaste boxes, small but not forgotten
    4.) Flush only when you need to, or try putting some bricks/rocks/filled water jug in your toilet tank to reduce the amt of water your toilet flushes
    5.) Glad rags (for the ladies)
    6.) White vinegar, baking soda, lemon juice - all are perfectly adequate cleaners, nontoxic and cheap. If you can, reuse containers you were going to throw out or recycle to store in.
    7.) Replace your light bulbs with energy efficient bulb when they burn up - our co-op sells them for 0.99 each - cheap and efficient
    8.) Don't buy new if you can get it secondhand - craigslist has a free section, many cities have local Freecycle mailing lists, keep usable stuff out of the landfills
    9.) Can't afford a hybrid? - try a 92 civic, they get decent gas mileage, are cheap (now), just don't buy from an area that salts the roads
    10.) Turn your old milk jugs into plant pots for container gardening
    • Re: Greener on a Budget

      Mon, April 7, 2008 - 6:51 PM
      This is a great idea Kaytee. . .

      . . .buy in bulk, even freezing the surplus, if needed.
      . . .find some vacant land and work out an arrangement where you can work with others to grow basic foods. my family did that when i was a kid, growing beans, corn, onions, squash, melons, tomatoes, lettuce. . .you name it. when others pitch in that makes the workload light.
      . . .use cloth bags for shopping.
      . . .wear more clothes in the house in winter so the thermostat can be down. .
      . . .keep your car empty of excess weight, lighter cars get better mileage. .
      . . .buy from thrift stores, that's part of reduce, reuse and recycle.
      . . .support green candidates for office and write letters to make your opinion known
      . . .avoid imported goods whenever possible. takes lots of energy to ship things here.
      . . .take showers with your significant other, you get just as clean and you save water too!
      . . .make sun tea or even countertop tea instead of boiling water.
      . . .plan your trips so that you are doing as much as possible on one trip instead of three and a half.
      • Re: Greener on a Budget

        Mon, April 7, 2008 - 8:35 PM
        How about forming community co-ops where everybody can buy ethical products in bulk directly from the suppliers, but because you are cutting out the middle man you can buy them for cheap. You can pay a monthly membership (or volunteer) and buy stuff at wholesale prices from the co-op which would be a not for profit organization.
        • Re: Greener on a Budget

          Mon, April 7, 2008 - 8:47 PM
          i joined such a buying club when in college and it later became a very successful food co-op and for the longest time remained true to its radical roots. . .started by members of a peace center.

          i'd say, if you can get people together, this is the best possible green solution, because you are also creating community. . .and lots of incredible things come from such a grouping. .
          • Re: Greener on a Budget

            Mon, April 7, 2008 - 9:05 PM
            Keep a garden. If you don't have a yard, lots of things can be grown in half barrels or buckets. Compost everything you possibly can = free fertilizer.

            Avoid phantom load - unplug everything you possibly can when its not in use. I have the microwave and the turtle tank filter on a surge strip and I turn it off at night. I unplug the coffee maker and toaster when I'm done using them.

            olar air heaters are cheap to build and almost any home can use them. The air circulates through them by the force of convection so there's no power supply. The sun heats the air inside the unit and the warmed air heats the room.

            Even if you drive an efficient car, do you really need to drive it every day? We have no public transit here, but I walk when I can and put off trips to town until I have several things to do while I'm there.
  • Re: Greener on a Budget

    Tue, April 8, 2008 - 2:59 AM
    Big agro and factory farms are some of the largest contributers to greenhouse emissions and water pollution. A vegetarian diet can save you money and make you MUCH greener in one fell swoop!
    • Re: Greener on a Budget

      Tue, April 8, 2008 - 1:29 PM
      Here are some more ideas:

      ~Use safety razors - cheaper and less plastic to throw away
      ~Mineral salt deodorant sticks - don't work for everyone, but last forever and work well some people
      ~Reusable coffee filters - Mine was about $16, paid for itself after a year
      ~Give up paper towels - replace with old t-shirts, cut down raggedy bathroom towels into kitchen sized towels
      ~Reuse holey socks as cleaning rags - someday I'll learn how to darn socks
      ~Think before you print
      ~Use tie-dye as a way to cover up stains on clothing
      ~Use cloth diapers (nappies) over disposables, or compromise and only use disposables when you travel
      ~Compost - build your own with scrap lying around, somet solid waste districts sell composters much cheaper than on the market
      ~Insulate your hot water tank
      ~Community Supported Agriculture (CSAs) - one way to support your local farmer and keep yourself in fresh produce, split a share between several people to keep costs low
      ~pif.abundantforests.org/, click on 'Plant it Forward' for ideas to reuse, reduce, recycle a million different things
      ~Hang your laundry out to dry in the warmer months
      ~Reduce junk mail, www.dmaconsumers.org to get off mailing lists, and write 'do not sell my name and address' on your checks when/if you send them to charities and such
      ~Install low flow shower heads, and aerators on your faucets
      • Re: Greener on a Budget

        Tue, April 8, 2008 - 3:00 PM
        >>~Hang your laundry out to dry in the warmer months <<

        I like this one, too. Also, hand wash much of your laundry. The clothes last longer, and can be air dried in dry climates inside, too. I let mine hang in my closet to dry on the hangers after they stop dripping, they are in the bathroom until they stop dripping. I fold my dry clean clothes to make room. The heavy or large things like jeans, sheets and towels still get the laundry machine treatment. Hand washing is easy though, saves energy and the clothes last for years.
        • Re: Greener on a Budget

          Thu, April 10, 2008 - 3:39 AM
          Here's one for the office. We don't send out our printing. We do all of it here on our own printers and we print only what we'll need for the week. So the packaging covers and directions inserts are all done in house. It sounds silly, but you'd be amazed how much product gets thrown away because it sat around too long. We also don't have to devote storage space to big boxes of printed material.
    • Re: Greener on a Budget

      Tue, April 8, 2008 - 2:57 PM
      >>Big agro and factory farms are some of the largest contributers to greenhouse emissions and water pollution. A vegetarian diet can save you money and make you MUCH greener in one fell swoop!<<

      Yay, that's for sure!
    • Re: Greener on a Budget

      Tue, April 8, 2008 - 3:39 PM
      "Big agro and factory farms are some of the largest contributers to greenhouse emissions and water pollution. A vegetarian diet can save you money and make you MUCH greener in one fell swoop!"

      If I'm not mistaken, Big Ag controls vegetable farming just as much as they do livestock.
      • Re: Greener on a Budget

        Tue, April 8, 2008 - 4:21 PM
        Big agro DOES control the produce industry and that IS a huge part of the pollution problem. Over the past several decades corporate giants and free trade have completely changed the methods in which this planet feeds itself, it's a really big problem. Sentience posted earlier, "reducing consumption, and buying local, and doing more yourself." Thats excellent advice. If everyone worked at creative, local, everyday solutions based on those simple principles, it would probably change the way retailers and manufacturers provide us the products we consume. Vegetarianism isn't a total fix, but it's a great step forward.

        For anyone who's interested, we have a links page our site with some decent resources for DIY living, recycling / reusing and green stuff, too... hungryknife.com/articles.php
        • Re: Greener on a Budget

          Tue, April 8, 2008 - 4:33 PM
          Cows will always use massive massive amounts of water, several times more than out total US consumption of municipal water uses.

          Cows that are outdoor grass fed are much better for the environment and conservation of resources than any animal that is grain fed, organic or not. Free range grass fed cows still use more water than is used for vegetable crops, but its not as bad as other types of farming where cows are packed together and fed grains with hay.

          The amount of grains fed to cows dwarfs what humans eat, so if you are eating meat that is raised in factory farms you are consuming something like 10 to 20 times the amount of resources by the time the food gets to your plate if you are the kind of American who has meat with every meal.
          • Re: Greener on a Budget

            Tue, April 8, 2008 - 4:41 PM
            "The amount of grains fed to cows dwarfs what humans eat, so if you are eating meat that is raised in factory farms you are consuming something like 10 to 20 times the amount of resources by the time the food gets to your plate if you are the kind of American who has meat with every meal."

            Do you have any figures on chickens, fish, pigs, etc.? There are other meat sources than just cows.
            • Re: Greener on a Budget

              Tue, April 8, 2008 - 5:58 PM
              I think the protein conversion ratio is best for chicken, which takes 3 or 4 times it's weight in grain. I found figures of 13 to 1 for cows , and 6 to 1 for pigs. It depends on what kind of fish. Catfish i would think about the best and least environmentally damaging.

              news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/progr...5313424.stm

              I suggest giving quinoa a good try for those who have not. It is extraordinarily nutritions, and i think it's the highest quality and quantity protein alternative to meat. It's much cheaper, easy to digest, and has a lot of vitamins and minerals.

              I forage for wild foods a good bit. I've recently discovered knotweed, which is an invasive species here, and is also the source of resveratrol, which is a very good thing evidently. Tonight i had some knotweed and also some daylilly shoots with my quinoa. Wild foods have more nutrition, generally, and are free. Turning an invasive species into dinner i find to be particularly satisfying.


              www.wildmanstevebrill.com/Plant...d.html
              en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resveratrol
              • Re: Greener on a Budget

                Tue, April 8, 2008 - 7:40 PM
                There you go.

                Just switching to fish and chicken, and if you must eat beef going free range makes a massive difference....a lot more than taking shorter showers which in reality is a joke compared to the amount we use by other other consumer habits.
              • Re: Greener on a Budget

                Thu, April 10, 2008 - 8:58 AM
                "Turning an invasive species into dinner i find to be particularly satisfying. "

                Sweet. Just so long as we don't let too many people know because then someone will plant it, farm it, and sell it.

                I have to be very careful with the wild food I eat, and wash things extremely well. There are too many epizoonotic diseases out there which can be passed through feces and urine that are invisible to the naked eye. I see people reaching down and picking a berry and popping it into their mouths and I simply cringe. When my mother accidentaly poked herself with a tiny plant, the wound turned foul. She went to the emergency room and found that apparently a nasty organism had been deposited on the plant by an animal passing by which peed on it and my mother then contracted it. Wild food is an awesome idea, just don't eat it in the wild unless you have good insurance.

                Tell me Wil, do you like dandelion greens? I see so many people spraying to kill dandelions because they are "weeds" yet they don't know how great those things are when harvested early.
        • Re: Greener on a Budget

          Thu, April 10, 2008 - 8:51 AM
          While growing locally and buying locally does sound like a sweet utopian dream, it isn't feasible or safe in my location. Besides the amount of illegal immigration coming through, we also have very little land available to the average person. Texas is 90% private land, and it would require cutting down a lot of trees to grow agricultural crops in town, and that violates many zoning laws. Raised bed gardens cost more than what most people are willing or able to pay, AND most of the homes in my town are rental properties so they aren't allowed to do gardening of the scale required to produce enough food. Maybe if several home owners got together, cut down their trees, grew individual crops, they could trade the crops amongst each other and therefore produce sufficient food.

          When coming up with co-op ideas and such, we also need to take safety into consideration. I wouldn't trust half the people down here with something I am going to put into my body. Corner-cutting and dangerous practices are so prevalent among private individuals, not to mention pitbull fighting, drug running, and human smuggling. I like the idea of co-ops for poor people, but at this time, I still don't see how it's feasible.
  • Re: Greener on a Budget

    Tue, April 8, 2008 - 3:34 PM
    Most poor people I know ride the bus, which is greener than I'm living right now.
    • Re: Greener on a Budget

      Tue, April 8, 2008 - 5:25 PM
      If a vegetarian diet won't work for you, and for some it doesn't, try a compromise and serve vegetarian meals as regularly as non-vegetarian meals. I am probably biased because of where I live, but I don't know anyone who has to have meat with every meal. I have never been able to successfully be a vegetarian, but eating meat once or twice a week seems to be optimal for my health.

      My husband is a hunter, so we have wild turkey during turkey season and the occasional venison during deer hunting season. We prefer the eat the meat he provides rather than buy it at the supermarket. The meat you hunt yourself is local, organic, and healthier than the meat in the supermarkets.
      • Re: Greener on a Budget

        Thu, April 10, 2008 - 3:42 AM
        Goats are better milk producers than cows. Goats will eat anything (but they prefer your fruit trees), need very little medical care and the milk can be used straight from the goat. Our skinny little nanny produced a gallon and a half a day. We made everything we could out of it and were still giving it away and feeding it to the chickens.
        • Re: Greener on a Budget

          Thu, April 10, 2008 - 1:17 PM
          Cow milk can be used straight from the cow as well.

          Are you saying that Goat milk comes naturally with Vitamin D incorporated into it?
          • Re: Greener on a Budget

            Thu, April 10, 2008 - 1:25 PM
            interesting point...

            vitamin D is a necessary component for calcium to be absorbed, and needs to be added as a supplement for anyone who drinks milk.

            of course, the fat and nutritional value is not lost without the D.

            but calcium both builds proper bone (which grows from marrow),

            and is an extremely important blood ph buffer (exclusively by the thyroid/parathyroid which has full organ status).
          • Re: Greener on a Budget

            Thu, April 10, 2008 - 2:42 PM
            I'm just relaying my experience and that of my friends. Everyone I've know who kept cows found that they required a lot more vet care than goats. They also needed more space and were a lot more work. Everyone I've know who keeps milk goats has found them to be much less work, needing less space and less intervention from the vet.

            But if you prefer cows, please don't let my anectdotal evidence stop you.
            • Re: Greener on a Budget

              Thu, April 10, 2008 - 2:54 PM
              A cow is a bit much for a single family. Goats seem like a better option, requiring less resources and work. They can be mean though. They will also eat your cloths if you set them down.
              • Re: Greener on a Budget

                Thu, April 10, 2008 - 3:14 PM
                I milked a cow for a couple of decades, and many goats too. Goats are tough on fruit trees and a lot harder than a cow to fence. The last community i lived on, one person kept a cow and lots of people in the community and county take turns milking and getting milk. This worked quite well in this particular situation, but i think it a rare situation. Still, if there were two or three families or individuals in a neighborhood who are really into it, and land is available, it would work. A cow overall is much less work per gallon, IMO. The butter and cheese thing much easier with a cow.
                • Re: Greener on a Budget

                  Thu, April 10, 2008 - 3:19 PM
                  I think you are right will, but I dont think a single family needs that many gallons.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Greener on a Budget

                    Thu, April 10, 2008 - 4:21 PM
                    One somewhat unexpected hardship involved is the constancy of it. You can't just skip milkings, and it really ties you to a schedule. Splitting the care of the animal or animals between at least two parties really helps a lot. I can see how keeping a goat would be way easier than a cow for novice milkers. Goats tend to really destroy land if not given a lot of it, and it takes a hell of a fence to turn them. If they get out, they go straight for whatever it is you don't want them to eat. There is a reason why the capri in capricious means goat. I love them though.

                    I agree totally about the vet bills though.
                    • Re: Greener on a Budget

                      Thu, April 10, 2008 - 5:44 PM
                      When I lived in the country, and we raised livestock, we would trade eggs for milk. One lady had about two or three milk cows and she saved up the money to buy a small homogenizationuy the machine. We would get fresh milk every week, and she got fresh eggs. We couldn't afford to buy the milk, but she really like the huge eggs our chickens produced. Plus, ours were guaranteed unfertilized.
      • Re: Greener on a Budget

        Thu, April 10, 2008 - 10:48 PM
        >>If a vegetarian diet won't work for you, and for some it doesn't, try a compromise and serve vegetarian meals as regularly as non-vegetarian meals. I am probably biased because of where I live, but I don't know anyone who has to have meat with every meal. I have never been able to successfully be a vegetarian, but eating meat once or twice a week seems to be optimal for my health.<<

        If more people cut down their meat consumption to only an occasional meal, it would make a big difference. A difference for our environment, and for the overall health problems this country faces, too.
        • Re: Greener on a Budget

          Thu, April 10, 2008 - 10:58 PM
          it isn't the meat, it's all the preservatives in the rest of the food people eat.

          Make people cook all their own food from scratch, and you will see a major change in health without cutting 1 oz of steak from their diet.
    • Re: Greener on a Budget

      Thu, April 10, 2008 - 8:44 AM
      We don't have buses. The poor people risk their lives walking our streets. Everything is miles apart, so they are stuck in this town with only Goodwill or Wal-Mart to shop from. I won't even walk the streets because too many drunks who can't drive.
      • Re: Greener on a Budget

        Thu, April 10, 2008 - 10:31 AM
        We don't have busses either. There are people here living in the most appalling poverty. It makes my situation look easy.

        I built my raised bed gardens for practically nothing. I used reclaimed wood from an old shed and compost to enrich the soil. I borrowed my grandmother's shovel until I could buy my own. I didn't buy any special tools or equipment. Just a lot of elbow grease. I don't buy bedding plants but raise everything from seed. Its cheaper and the plants seem stronger.

        Its possible to be green on a budget. I've seen some great ideas here that I hadn't seen before. Thanks to everyone!